Is the Bible God’s Revelation? [Containing Folder/Edit]

  1. Introduction

  1. Definitions.

  1. Sacred. Of divinely or supernaturally revealed or inspired nature.
  2. The Textus Receptus Bible.
  3. Textus Receptus Biblical closed canon or canon of Scripture. Which “The group” agrees that no more books/texts/scriptures should be added to the collection.
  4. Masoretic text?
  5. TANAKH?
  6. Divine Revelation.
  7. Divine Scripture. “The Bible”. Any communication represented by symbols in any printable surface “originated” from God.
  8. The Bible. The collection of [books?|scripture?] “We” believe are God’s Revelation to Man.
  9. Canon:
  1. Criteria. One of the elements or filters used to identify a book as God’s revelation (for example, written by an apostle)
  2. Model. A set the criteria that, once structured, can be used to define the bible or the criteria used to define what its limits are and selection filters.
  1. Focus of the Analysis. The question for the analysis seems hard to disambiguate so we are creating several for the reader to identify the pattern and the focus of the question, the first one being (subjectively) more specific:

  1. How do we know that each one of the books of the Bible individually is indeed revealed by God? 
  2. How can we even know what or where God's revelation is?
  1. What were the criteria used to define the Masoretic Text?
  1. Aren’t we elevating texts (The Bible, especially the letters) that can be very close to perfection to an absolute perfection state (revealed/inspired)?
  2. How do we know that ALL of the Books of the Bible are perfect|inspired? and not just 1 or some?
  1. By whom, when, and where was the canon created?
  1. Motivation of the analysis.

On top of the regular motivation for analysis of the section (Apologetics), we might want to underline these elements:

  1. The action with suspicion of error is an error in itself. If I act on the suspicion that my action is against God, the act itself is against God (according to the Bible, even the decision to do it is). If one does not know (or is unsure) if an action has a negative moral value or not, performing that action will have a negative one in itself.
  1. Without us being sure that the Bible is God’s revelation, is impossible to obtain conviction to follow it.
  1. Goals of the Analysis
  1. Posed Information Analysis.

  1. Models Posed

  1. Spirit & Truth Fellowship International

By the community to whom it was delivered?

  1. Larry A. Taylor (apparent Atheist) Quoting--> Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World - Josh McDowell
  1. Not abounding in historical and geographical inaccuracies and anachronisms.
  2. Do not teach doctrines that are false and/or foster practices that are at variance with inspired scripture
  3. Do not resort to literary types and/or display an artificiality of subject matter and styling out of keeping with inspired scripture.
  4. Do not have a lack of distinctive elements that give genuine Scripture its divine character, such as prophetic power and poetic and religious feeling.
  1. The Meeting House - declaration
  1. Jewish
  1. Apostolicity.
  2. Catholicity. Did the early churches (for whom these were written) receive them widely? (Recognized them)
  3. Orthodoxy. Do they contradict another letter(book of the canon)?
  1. FBCK
  1. Cliffe Knechtle - University of Arizona
  1. Other Posed Models:

  1. Revival Movements. There has not been anything else that [has] caused the historical revival movements that The Bible has.
  1. R: Rock Music is provided as an example of big life-changing events, but there are a lot of others, like big protests, movements, revolutions, religions, healing revivals, wars, etc... that could be argued they have and will lead to massive and radical changes in people's behavior.
  1. Redemption Related Books. Any book included in the canon should be related to man's redemption
  1. R: The redemption topic seems to inherit importance to a book but definitely not divine authority.
  1. R: The personal experience of a writer should not embed all of his writings.
  1. List of single Arguments (non-models).

  1. Is it Authoritative? Did it come from the Hand of God (Does this book come with divine “thus saith the Lord”?)
  1. Is it Prophetic? Was it written by a man of God?
  1. Is it Authentic? [The fathers had the policy of “if in doubt throw it out” this enhanced the “validity of their discernment of canonical books”]
  1. Is it Dynamic? Did it come with the live-transforming power of God?
  1. Was it Received, Collected, Read, and Used? Was it accepted by the people of God?
    Peter acknowledged Paul's work as scripture parallel to Old Testament Scripture (2Pe 3.16)
  1. The personal divine experience of each writer embeds it with authority. And the community does add confirmation to it.
  2. Apostolicity. Are the documents old enough that could have been written by an Apostle? Or is it a First Century Document?
  1. Transformed lives from sin.
  1. The book had to be “Community Approved.
  1. R: God is the one guiding this process, proof of this is the inerrancy of the cannon (it hasn’t changed since it was created).
  1. R: 
  1. The book has to be life-changing with witnesses of it.
  1. The Bible has proven itself in our lives.
  1. The Bible says that if something else speaks contrary to that, God will not allow it. Isaias & Deuteronomy say if “they” speak not according to this book's law they are false. So if we can be sure that these books are divinely revealed we can be sure of this rule.
  1. Prophecy, Archeology, and Reason are proof that the Bible is at least part of God’s Revelation  - Our God-Breathed Book -- The Bible The verbally Inspired, Enthernal, Inerrant Word of God - Dr John R. Rice.
  1. The book had to be written by an apostle.
  1. The book had to be applied by the churches.
  1. Must have been in accordance with the Christian Faith. Same teachings that the churches already had.
  1. Jewish for the Old Testament.
  1. Apostolicity. Are the documents old enough that they can be written by an Apostle? Or is it a First Century Document?
  1. Catholicity. Did the early churches (for whom these were written) receive them widely? (Recognized them)
  2. Orthodoxy. Do they contradict another letter(book of the canon)?
  1. The Book had to be written in the first century
  1. The Bible claims to be God’s revelation. - Our God-Breathed Book -- The Bible, The verbally Inspired, Eternal, Inerrant Word of God - Dr John R. Rice. 2Tim 3.16 ”All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, ...”;
  1. Jn 7.17 “If any man will do his will, he shall know...” Doing His will, we’ll know.
  1. Other Arguments

  1. The Bible should prove itself in our lives.
  2. Canon fodder. We should ask the question: what are the criteria we use for us to know who your father or mother is?
  1. Several Sources
    In a nutshell, Jesus Christ is the center of authority for the Bible. It is His life, teachings, and actions that provide the foundation and legitimacy for the Scriptures. Through His words and deeds, Jesus affirmed the divine inspiration and authority of both the Old and New Testaments. By referencing and validating the Old Testament in His teachings and commissioning His disciples to spread His message, Jesus established the basis upon which we recognize the Bible as God's revelation. Therefore, the authority of the Bible is inherently tied to the person of Jesus Christ, making Him the central figure in understanding and affirming the Scriptures as divinely inspired.

  1. The Temptation in the Desert:
    When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert, He responded to each temptation by quoting Old Testament scriptures, specifically from Deuteronomy (Matthew 4:1-11). These references demonstrate that Jesus regarded these scriptures as the authoritative Word of God, powerful enough to counter Satan’s temptations. By citing these texts, Jesus not only resisted Satan but also affirmed the divine authority and reliability of the Old Testament.

The Last Supper:
During the Last Supper, Jesus and His disciples sang hymns, which are widely believed to have included the Psalms (Matthew 26:30; Mark 14:26). The Psalms, a significant part of the Old Testament, were thus endorsed by Jesus through their use in this solemn and pivotal moment. This act underscores that Jesus viewed these writings as sacred and authoritative.

Through these actions, Jesus Christ effectively endorses the specific portions of the Old Testament He referenced, and by logical extension the entire TaNajK (Old Testament), affirming its status as divinely inspired and authoritative scripture.

The authority of the New Testament is rooted in the commission given by Jesus to His disciples and the apostolic teachings that followed. This authority is underpinned by several key considerations:

  1. Commission of the Disciples:

Jesus instructed His disciples to teach all that He had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). This mandate suggests that the teachings and writings of the apostles, as direct transmitters of Jesus’ instructions, carry His authority Hebrews 1:1-2: “He has spoken to us by His Son”. This verse highlights the transition from the Old Testament prophets to the teachings of Jesus and His apostles as the primary source of divine revelation.

Furthermore, 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all Scripture is God-breathed. This can be understood to encompass the New Testament writings, as they were produced by those directly commissioned by Jesus. The context of this verse indicates that the author, Paul, is referring to his own writings and those of his fellow apostles. The passage suggests that these writings, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are part of the divine revelation and authoritative for the church.

  1. Scripture Harmony:

Paul is a unique case among the New Testament authors. Although he was not among the original twelve apostles, his encounter with the risen Christ on the road to Damascus and subsequent teachings were recognized and affirmed by the early church. Paul’s epistles were accepted as scripture by the apostles, including Peter, who equated Paul’s letters with other apostles’ scriptures.

To understand why Paul’s writings were accepted, we can consider the concept of tacit endorsement. In various contexts, including judicial and logical frameworks, silence or lack of refutation can imply consent or agreement. The apostles, by not refuting Paul’s teachings and letters, implicitly endorsed them. This principle is evident in how Peter refers to Paul’s writings. Peter not only refrains from refuting Paul but also acknowledges the wisdom given to Paul by God, placing his letters on the same level as other scriptures.

This should imply that the apostles were vigilant in addressing any disagreements or incorrect teachings/writings among themselves. An example of this that will serve as a validation is found in the case of circumcision, where Paul confronted Peter publicly because Peter's actions were not in line with the truth of the gospel (Galatians 2:11-14). This incident demonstrates that if any apostle had an issue with the teachings or writings of another, they would promptly speak up and address it. The fact that Paul's teachings were not refuted by the other apostles, but rather accepted and even endorsed, reinforces the argument of tacit endorsement and validates the authority of his writings as divinely inspired scripture.

One can see not only a tacit endorsement but an explicit one when Peter writes in 2 Peter 3:15-16, recognizing Paul’s letters as part of the scriptural canon. Peter’s acknowledgment serves as a clear validation of Paul’s authority and the divine inspiration of his writings. The early church’s acceptance of Paul’s epistles, despite his unique background and direct revelation from Christ, highlights the consistency and unity of the apostolic message.

Understanding these tacit and explicit endorsements helps clarify why the early church viewed Paul’s writings as authoritative. The lack of objection from the other apostles and their recognition of Paul’s inspired teachings indicate a collective acknowledgment of his role and contributions to the New Testament canon. This principle not only applied to Paul’s epistles but also extended to
other manuscripts the church was collecting over time. During the first two centuries, the early church carefully preserved and validated these writings, ensuring they conformed to the same pattern of acceptance and endorsement. This process demonstrates the collaborative and discerning nature of the early church in establishing the authoritative scriptures and contributed to the development of the New Testament canon as we know it today.

  1. It's universal harmony.

The Bible uniquely provides coherent and meaningful answers to the deepest questions of human existence, questions concerning purpose, morality, suffering, justice, love, forgiveness, human nature, and the destiny of mankind. Its teachings form a unified worldview that speaks not only to one culture or era, but to humanity universally.

The Bible also demonstrates a remarkable harmony between the philosophical and the practical. It addresses fundamental questions concerning truth, meaning, morality, and human existence while simultaneously providing coherent guidance for daily life, relationships, justice, leadership, suffering, and personal transformation. The enduring relevance of its principles across civilizations and generations reflects their profound correspondence with human nature, human experience, and the fundamental realities of life itself.

This harmony is not merely literary consistency, but a comprehensive unity that integrates theology, ethics, history, and human experience into a single coherent framework. This universality, internal coherence, and profound harmony with both human nature and human experience provide evidence pointing to a divine source behind its message.

  1. Important Notes

  1. The Bible claims to be that revelation
  1. IPe 1.21 “... spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”;
  2. Although the verse says they spake (spoke), implying maybe a difference with the “written word” | Bible
  3. IISam 23.2 “The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.”;
  4. Same as the first
  5. Mar 12.36 “For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.”;
  6. Act 28.25
  7. I Co 2.9-14
  1. The Bible has too many prophecies and harmonies
  1. We could not have known:
  1. Resources

  1. Dismissed Sources
  1. Evidence that demands a verdict Volume II - Josh McDowell (Mar)
  1. Which Bible?-Many... Edited by David Otis Fuller, D.D.
  2. True or False? -Many... Edited by David Otis Fuller, D.D.
  1. https://youtu.be/26l5OI58SQw?si=x8qj_b2_XwEhhG_u

        

        

        

        

        

        

        

        

        

        

        

        

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goo.gl/QrD7wx

This is a different pattern that the God existence topic presents. One very clear difference is shown when analysing on the God Existence topic where a lot of Christian perspective information and argumentation can be easily found but it is not the same with Bible canonization.

Where can we get the relevant variables and data that can help people to incline into believing that the entire Bible is God revealed?

Although I have problems with the authenticity of masoretic text (in a definition focus) with people trying to descrediting it: https://goo.gl/Eqnqj8

Isn't the TANAKH the term that I'm looking for, instead of Masoretic Text?

isn't it the entire canon and not only the Old Testament? o.O

I think that this is also important

This shouldn't be here but seems handy that the reader has this information due to the scenarios the people trying to explain are running into.

The motivation supporting any search for truth or knowledge is important.  Describing the motivation in writing helps others understand the author's perspective and reason for the work.

I ment that related to the structure of the document, because all of the apologetics have the same core motivation of the analisis. What I'm thinking is that this should be in the document where we have the compilation of all of them and this should be just a link to them in case some one else needs to know about the rest of them. This implementation seems too specific because this analysis is just one of many

Quote from [email protected] What is the goal of the analysis?

What outcome is being sought?

With God's help, Find the truth (hoping that our prayers and supplications will help).

Are you suggesting I should add it in the document?

Yes, it helps the reader understand if you achieved your goal.

on it.

Quote from [email protected]: Does this mean seeking the truth about a matter is wrong if suspect the truth can not be determined?

I'm trying to understand this statement. Does the statement mean you are concerned that your motivation in conducting this analysis is against God's will or is disobedient in some way?

I'm not answering the question itself but trying to answer what I think it means:

No, what it is trying to establish is a general rule for moral value that will help explain the motivation of the analysis.

To give an example, if a person A tries to humilliate a person B giving some kind of help (money or goods) and person B is thankfull for the gift and obtains a sincere benefit from it ignoring person's A intentions. The outcome of the act can be define as good (or desirable) but the intentions of person A will give the action a negative charge [will make it bad/wrong], the corruption of the heart makes the action became "bad"

Quote from [email protected] [This] appears to be philosophical statement. Please explain the logic further about how two opposite statements can both be true.

The title is just a name that I'm giving to this conclusion in how should we handle a credible opposite explanation for a "statement" that we have assimilated as true. And I tried to summarize it with the content ( "When we analyze 2 oppo..." ). Are you asking for more elaboration on the matter?

Yes, I need to understand the process being used to determine what is credible.  What would you consider to be an authoritative source of information for determining the truth in your analysis?  This is very important.

I'm thinking logic clearly is.

Also reason?

I'm thinking that you probably are thinking in something specific but I'm not. Personally I will be looking for ANY way to "determine" that the Bible is Divine.

Quote from [email protected] Is it possible to “obtain conviction” about anything?  How is conviction about the truth obtained?

Thanks

What is the focus of the question?seems to be a philosophy-focused question, is it? or is it rather a phrasing issue?

Assuming is a phrasing issue: the definition of conviction as "a firmly held belief or opinion". Then I guess I'll rather state it as suggested in the new text, text in green (suggested-texts are automatically formatted by Google Docs in green).

And If the question is implying that we should not be convicted about anything, then That is interesting, I have not thought about that.

Other statement that the question can be implying could be that we can't actually be convicted about anything. There is one (or several for the matter) philosophy that follow this turn, but I haven't being able to debunk it. So I guess I can't say no to that either.

Do you consider the knowledge gained through philosophy to be of Divine origin or man's origin?

I think I will also require context to fully answer that question. Trying my best. It seems that you already have a very solid definition of philosophy (I do use the word but in a very superficial way).

Google Defines it as: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

It sounds like philosophy is something we all do. A baby does it when he/she tries to understand what the word No means, or a kid when tries to understand that actions have consecuences.

If that is what you mean by philosophy then I guess the answer is BOTH, because clearly man's origin has to be God, meaning God created man then man and everything he does has God as origin in some sense, in the other hand you can probably mean a totally different thing.

trying to open a little, I guess one thing I can see in myself  is that I've always seen knoledge as 1 THING and reality as its source and yes, God being the one who created our reality I guess He is the source, independently if it is religious related topics or not.

BTW some context will help a lot with those questions :D

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HNr1k3DaTzGQNUV31HsZDDPugWwemhNrL7Yn9EPUnEs/edit

It seems that if the Community approved premise is valid the "life changing" (2nd) premise seems not to be needed ¬¬

I think he didn't mean it as it is, but the phrase "Community Approved" does summarize it well.

To understand the model we first need to understand the model and I have some questions about the individual list elements in the Argument section.

This argument definition seems to be recurrent, and in this case key to analice the criteria posed.

It is proposed to understand and preferably conclude in it preferably if possible, and at least understand it to then analyse it in conjunction with this (or any) criteria.

Does this means that they wern't in place with the redemption story? [email protected]

_Assigned to [email protected]_

https://youtu.be/zeg0c6tH-uw

And Independently of this behavior seems not to be a very good criteria or proove of divine authority from a biblical perspective due to the Bible exhortations on not trusting man hearths. and establishing as a priority the foundation and truth before the actions or emotions as a pattern.

Also, aplligin this criteria alone should result in accepting writings like the Joseph Smith one

We have to presume it doesn’t mean the literal “Hand of God” or maybe some more specification on the matter will be useful. Seems like a more specific declaration will be: The revelation element must declare itself as part of (or the whole) God’s revelation.

Seems hard to define what a “man of God” is without using the Bible.

What does it mean in this sentence?

Catholic Fathers?

Check this out:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/canon.cfm

didn't this mean apostle or apostle helper?

OVG: "The book had to be applied by the churches"

We all seems to understand what this argument is about, but it is clearly better to try to define it.

How did the community defined it? Because I can assume things that might not be right about the criteria they used. Like 4ex. they added books that they thought were really good and they treated them as divine

How did the community defined it? Because I can assume things that might not be right about the criteria they used. Like 4ex. they added books that they thought were really good and they treated them as divine (that as far as I remember it actually happened)

Does this mean that God will take care of ALL processes of canonization? or is this binding it again to "the community"

I agree that is easy to be expected but it does not seem like it is required.

Dt 18.22

Jer 28.9

clearly this beats my capacities right now. But we can see that will not be relevant because of the first point.

What does reason means in this context? is it the understanding and correct representation of the archaeological proof and the prophecy related to that? or just reason in general? That btw reason is complicated word to use in general.

if I take as an example a dinosaur fossil and any of the prophecies and any of the logical rules given by simple reason I won’t be able to conclude given any of those that the Bible is God’s revelation

What  archeological finding, prophecy and logical rule can make the argument regain some sense and help us get to the proposed conclusion.

Isn't this too convenient?

This seems to be a recurrent argument, but Jewish is not a rule :D

What was the rule used by the Jewish to identify the old testament set as God Revelation?.

This seems to be key while looking for the answer of the initial question.

even if we can find a way to prove this as true, shouldn't we attach to the letters we have, ANY other letters that the apostles wrote like to a friend or family?

I heard about this that the letters said that  "the lord said <something>" this will also mean that we should take ONLY that section and not the whole letter.

IF this is a duplication of the "Community Approved" Rule, the merge of the duplicated is suggested. and the discussion on the same as well.

this rule by itself sounds very suspicious because it seems that it won't add any  authority or validity to the canon but will instead deceived into thinking that it was fleshly driven.

Although this won't make it necessarily incorrect.

How can we know this?

In spanish: Falacia de Petición de principio [https://goo.gl/7NYDQm]

for example: “All God’s revelation is given by inspiration of God” might not help a lot to get to the answer of the initial question.

But if we can somehow (maybe by a canon) lock the fact that the word scripture is making reference to what we know now as "The Bible" then we will have a very solid argument.

ignoring physical similarities

Note: This assumes the veracity of the Gospels, which are widely accepted as reliable historical documents by the majority of historians, both believers and non-believers. The reliability of the Gospels is supported by several key factors: they were written by eyewitnesses or based on eyewitness accounts, were composed very close in time to the actual events of Jesus' life, and describe events witnessed by a large number of people. These aspects and many more contribute to their credibility and the strong foundation upon which the authority of the Bible is built.

Except maybe the Revelations book.

Does this reflect what you are proposing brother @[email protected] 

You are free to suggest changes :)

_Assigned to [email protected]_